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Operators Let Fly, But Lear Much About Possible Future Desig

rends

"ONE of the most brilliant successes in many years." That was everybody's opinion of The Commercial Motor Fleet Management Conference, held in London last Thursday. Nearly 500 operators, engineers, and manufacturers were present. Indeed, such was the success of the function that "The Commercial Motor" is to sponsor a Fleet Management Conference ever,

INTRODUCING Lord Chesham and I the speakers, Mr. Roger Gresham Cooke, chairman of the conference, said that it was a great tribute to The Commercial Motor that there were nearly 500 of the most important operators, operating managers, engineers and people connected with the commercial vehicle manufacturing industry present.

Before the war, he continued, commercial vehicle conferences had been held at the time of the Commercial Motor Show by, he thought, the S.M.M.T.

"We must congratulate The Commercial Motor for reviving the idea and for bringing it so brilliantly into execution today", he added.

Before introducing Lord Chesham, Mr. Gresham Cooke drew attention to the fact that the four Commercial Motor essay winners—C. R. Salaman (B.R.S. (Parcels) Ltd.); D. E. I.ysons (Fodens); T. K. Dobson (Econofreight Transport), and Christopher Moyes (a fifth form pupil of Birkenhead School) were present as special guests of the editor. They were warmly applauded by delegates.

Lord Chesham, Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Transport, remarking that the Conference was " pretty technical ", said that his Ministry had its own views on the subjects under discussion.

"To be very brief ", be said, "we hope to see, in future designs, quieter engines and a steady movement away from the avoidable problem of smoke. We hope to see the opportunity for engines to be run wrongly become less and less. Above all—and what is almost our main preoccupation and certainly our most important one—we want to see the whole trends moving steadily towards safety."

He appreciated, he continued, that such aims were not easy to achieve but, for the Ministry's part, if any new design moved towards greater safety by some kind of different approach, the Ministry would be ready to look at any changes in the regulations that might be necessary to accommodate them if they turned Out to be helpful.

He hoped to see, he concluded, as much effort (despite the greater difficulties put into the business of simplification, together with a greater easiness of maintenance with regard to commercial vehicles) as was currently being put in by the industry in the design of private cars.

The results from recent spot checks showed that while the results were no doubt disquieting and worrying, this appeared to have been the work, or lack of work, of a distinct minority. "That minority is too large and too irresponsible ", he concluded.

Introducing his paper, "Future Trends in Power Units" (published in full in fast week's issue), Mr. J. G. Dawson, engineering director of F. Perkins Ltd., said that the phase had been reached where the diesel engine still had a considerable amount of development in it. But there were other forms of prime mover on the horizon and it was important that they were looked at and a comparison made to See where each of them was likely to "fit into the picture ".

The pattern was clear cut, he said. We would sec major increases in power-toweight ratios and engine designers would be under great pressure from vehicle designers to give them more power in the same package size—in other words, smaller and more efficient engines.

Another important factor that would become of increasing importance was the better adaptation of the engine to the duty that was demandedof it.

The engines 'that we will be using towards the end of the next 10 years will be basically derivatives of the engines we are using today. They will have turbochargers and differential gears on them, but they will not be all that different he said. " First cost is only a minor factor in overall operating costs and development should not be restricted he concluded.

Mr. L. J. Cotton (Unilever Ltd.) said that operators, in broad terms, summarized a vehicle as "something to carry 'a

load". They merely wanted sufficient space to do just that, and space for the driver. "After that, the power unit and all the other bits and pieces can go wherever the manufacturer likes to put. :hem—provided they don't occupy space."

They were asking for more powerful L.ngines, he continued, which meant that if the trend continued as it was at the moment, there would be longer engines which; in terms of space, was. inipractic-, able. .

The paper showed that the specific fuel consumption of the differential diesel engine was little worse than a turbocharged engine, although the operating cost 'showed up better in the case of the former.

Replying, Mr. Dawson said that in comparison the differential diesel engine lost on fuel consumption on the test bed because of the power absorbed by the mechanically driven supercharger. There would, however, be savings on the road.

There were a number of possibilities for further development on the differential unit, most of which was aimed at reduc ing the supercharged power except when it was needed. This would give at least another 10 per cent and therefore the prospects, from the economical point of view, were " very rosy ".

The question of achieving common standards both in operations and regula tions with Europe was stressed by Mr. T., G. Gibb (vice-chairman and managing director of B.R.S. Federation Ltd.). Progress had been made but uniformity had not been achieved, he said.

Mr. Gibb criticized the fact that regulations in this country throughout the past 30 years had all been based on vehicle unladen weights and expressed the hope that the legislation soon to be intro duced on smoking would " not be had ".

Vehicles, he continued, were not as reliable as they should be. Could there have been too much devotion to getting the "last bit of use out of the last square centimetre?" he asked and suggested that

designers must, in future, have more elbow room and take into account the difficulties of fitters. Could not manufacturers send out squads of men to go round the users to speak to the men on the shop floors to try to find out their difficulties?

Mr. Dawson, replying, said that designers had to hold a balance between the importance of getting the ultimate of power and efficiency out of a given engine, but they may have to go back a little on this to get improvements in maintenance and to make engines less ,sensitive.

" Mr. A. S. Mansfield (John Harris (Cartage) Ltd.) asked if Mr. Dawson thought that the current popular lightweight diesel Was really "man enough" in view of the great improvements in road systems which gaveunlimited speeds and lone hours at full throttle running.

We can keep pace with the road scheme without a great deal of difficulty". Mr. Dawson replied, amid laughter.

Mr. P. Walsh (Rolls-Royce Ltd.) said that it was the duty of manufacturers and designers of both engines and vehicles to lay down a limit on power-to-weight ratios. Mr. Dawson, in his reply, agreed that the power-to-weight ratio of trucks

should go up, but the question of engine size was very involved: -The fact that a bigger engine was used did not necessarily mean that more fuel was used. How the vehicle was operated determined this.

Comments made by other speakers to Mr. Dawson's paper included a suggestion by Mr. M. H. Roberts (Dagenham Borough Council) that manufacturers should design vehicles and so on bearing in mind the general shortage of skilled maintenance staff. He was concerned. he added, about the possible intrusion into the cab of the VS engine which, he considered; offered better power-to-weight ratio. • (Mr. Dawson later told the Conference that the problem was more a question of width ". just above the frame ")

Mr. R. B. Bettison I Forte's arid Co. Ltd.) suggested that the ideal for small distribution vehicles was to place a small diesel engine with automatic transmission ;lightly forward of the rear axle.

There was loud applause when Mr. .1, W. C. Cross (Associated British Foods ltd. suggested that immediately an operator bought a fleet of trucks nowadays he was in trouble from the day the

vehicles were delivered. There were on Iv two manufacturers who produced engines that were worth while. "Let us talk about reliability ", he urged. His company, he added, had lost 5 m. miles a year through faulty engines. The only improvements in the industry in the past 45 years had been in rear axles, he suggested.

Mr. Dawson, defending the industry on this score, replied that there had been substantial improvements. It came down to the question of what the operator wanted to buy. At the moment the question of first cost carried too much importance. "I think we can offer engines of improved characteristics ", he added, "but obviously we cannot do this tomorrow ". Care had to be taken not to go to "the other extreme ".

The final speaker, Mr. G. A. H. Watts (United Transport Co. Ltd.), drew attention to the fact that Mr. Dawson had made no reference in his paper to the use of air-cooled diesels. Had he dismissed them for the future? Mr. Dawson expressed his answer to this in one word: " Yes." There was no future—air cooled engines were larger, noisier and more expensive and did not necessarily operate over a wide range of temperatures any better than liquid-cooled engines. A few coppers spent on better hose clips and hoses and such like would bring off handsome dividends regarding the latter, he said.

Future Design Requirements in Passenger Vehicles Introducing his paper, which had previously been circulated to delegates (and printed in full in The Commercial Motor last week), Mr. S. C. Vince, chief engiheer, B.E.T. Federation Ltd., added these comments. As a result of the larger dimensions now legally permissible, Mr. Vince claimed that 90-seater doubledecks would be possible and would still come within the new weight limits even with two staircases.

He reiterated that there should be no return to the old habit of stripping units for the express purpose of seeing that they were still working. Nevertheless, minor servicings would still be required to be done fairly frequently. But it was

imperative that tests should be carried out by competent persons. Many operators were running far too long between oil changes and as a result additives became valueless after such excessive spells.

Emphasizing the value of rubber suspensions, Mr. Vince revealed that 99 per cent of the rubber suspension units they used ran from one docking to another without trouble and provided a performance equal to air suspension. Although he was aware that many may not agree with him, he maintained that comfort was a top passenger priority. In contrast to punctuality and fares, comfort was at least a factor over which operators had a substantial measure of control. Commenting on the future for passenger vehicles with battery-electric propulsion, Mr. Vince was satisfied that there was a sufficient range of conditions to which they were admirably suited to justify their use, even though such vehicles would not meet all the operators' needs.

Opening the discussion on Mr. Vince's paper, Mr. G. McKay, Tilling Association Ltd., questioned the validity of the speaker's support for the large-capacity, single-deck passenger vehicles. It appeared to Mr. McKay that the doubledecker was being written off in favour of such vehicles. Despite the fact that the double-decker was used in larger quantities only in this country, it was in many ways a very economical unit both in road space and garage accommodation. The unit cost per seat was cheaper than the single-deck version, he said, adding and if we are going to have longer single-deck vehicles with more doors the unit cost per seat will go up in favour of the double-decker ".

As Mr. Vince mentioned, the secret of one-man operation of large-capacity, single-deck vehicles was the fare structure. On holiday in the northern Scandinavian capitals, Mr. McKay had found that the cheapest bus ticket was 8d. in Oslo arid Is. Id. in Stockholm. If the British public could be persuaded to have the Continental fare structure and if staff could be obtained to man such vehicles then the large-capacity singledecker may have a future in this country. But one could not have these vehicles without all the other conditions that go with them.

Commenting on heating and ventilation Mr. McKay said that it was comparatively easy to extract some of the heat from the cooling water but not so easy from the exhaust system. He added: "I hope that one day we will persuade our engine manufacturers to give us an exhaust manifold with a water jacket incorporated in it ".

Regarding standardization, he asked Mr. Vince how he intended to get down to a few types of vehicles. Was the manufacturer to design 10 and then say: "You can have these or you can do without ", or were operators to prepare specifications and ask manufacturers to build accordingly? Mr. McKay jocularly concliided: "I have been involved for the past two years on the latter of the two exercises. All I have achieved is to fall out with all my colleagues in the Tilling Group ".

In reply, Mr. Vince admitted that he too found himself in a similar position by adopting the second of the two alternatives; but nevertheless considered that operators should agree through their associations on a limited number of plans. "We pay so heavily for all the bright ideas .. of ours and I think the sooner we get down to this the better commented Mr. Vince.

A specialist on heat transfer spoke next. He was Mr. A. J. Wall, Clayton Dewa.ndre Co. Ltd.. who noted that Mr. Vince had referred to this subject under two separate headings—heating and ventilation, and engine cooling. "I think the time is ripe—in fact completely overripe--for the complete integration of these two functions." He insisted and considered that operators should "thump the table very vigorously " in pressing for closer co-operation between chassis manufacturers, engine manufacturers and coachbuilders.

The view of the small operator was expressed by Mr. J. A. M. D. Clarke, Moss Motor Tours (Sandown, I.o.W.) Ltd. Much had been said about future trends and design but what small coach operators were looking, for was reliability and "reliability today ", he said. Mr., Clarke complained that every lime a new vehicle was brought on the Market there wa always about three years of teething trouble before all modifications had been completed and " the thing is really roadworthy ". Engine accessibility was vitally important whilst service from manufacturers was inadequate and broke down altogether at holiday time.

In reply Mr. Vince reassured Mr. Clarke that the big operators also had similar problems. It was rather amazing that engineers of their various companies had told him that the worst vehicles they had got were the new ones, and it was not until such vehicles had had a few overhauls that they became really reliable.

Delegates were then given the Irish viewpoint by Mr. J. Higgins, Dublin City Services, Coras lompair Eireann. The ever-growing problem of operating buses in cities was not going to be conquered if operators did not get better vehicles. Like Mr. McKay, he did not share Mr. Vince's enthusiasm for large standee buses. There was the fares problem and also that of rising standards of living, he said, adding that " people' are looking for more comfort rather than less . . if we don't give better seating accommodation people just: wOn't travel.and.the dr:ft away from buses will tend to increase :iither than decrease". But he accepted that for one or two short. stage journeys there was a case for standee buses.

. On the ,subject of engines Mr. Higgins ontended that buses today .were under,7 Dowered.. " I think that drivers in diffi:1.11t, traffic Conditions have to push them very hard and this makes the maintenance

bill higher and it also leads to the problem-of smoking."

Mr. A. McAuley, also of Coras lompair Eireann, stressed the need for the keen operator to he always in a position•to take full advantage of design developments. To do just that he must write-off vehicles over a relatively shorter period than the 15 years or so which is currently regarded as normal life. He considered that in future this period should be reduced to 10 years, which step would give rise to

Disclosingthat, as a former assistant engineer to Mr. Vince, he had on occasions in the past disagreed with him, Mr. .i. D. Mundella, Potteries Motor Traction Co. Ltd., commented that on this occasion he could only disagree with him in that he had not made the case of rubber suspension anything like strong enough. Referring to a photograph of a private hire which they did 40 years ago, including 10 vehicles with solid tyres, Mr. Mundella ruefully commented, " Oh, dear me, the springing is still the same!"

An American view on suspension was eiven by Mr. G. A. Kozloff, Chrysler Motors Ltd. Great emphasis was being pot on suspension other than steel, he said, and air had been successful, although cost was a problem. Rubber suspension had made advances and he ,igreed with previous speakers as to the extreme importance of passenger comfort.

Replying, Mr. Vince reiterated that he considered rubber suspension was the ideal and it was something that they must ensure they got in the future. This could only be achieved by combining operators' demands.

Braking systems were the essence of comments made by Mr. F. G. Parnell, Lockheed Hydraulic Brake Co. Ltd. On the development of disc brakes over the past 10 years he was surprised to' find that to prove effective there was still an ;isle weight limit of around seven tons. In theory one could use twin discs but' he had yet to see a practical destgn, whilst fitting two pairs pads only reduced the cooling of the discs.

He was pleased to note Mr.. Vince's interest in retarders, adding: " I think our approach to this unit is quite wrong." It was usually regarded as a costly device switched on to cope with "a particularly nasty Alp and • at other times is just a bit of junk to be carted around."

Mr. Parnell said he would like to see a retarder suitable for ordinary driving and used as a main service brake. It would be brought into operation with light pedal pressure whilst further pressure would bring into use the emergency friction brakes situated in the wheels. Such a layout would cut down brake wear and eliminate fade. The fact, that it would still be useful on mountain passes would then be just a by-product.

Despite the weight limitation.

Vince reminded Mr. Parnell that many v,ihicies, including sonic large passenger vehicles carrying more than 50 passengers. were operating exceedingly well with this brake. Regarding retarders they had previously been bulky and very expensive. But given a compact and light retarder Mr. Vince agreed that operators would save "quite a lot" and the retarder would pay for itself over and over again in reduced brake lining wear.

When Mr. Gresham Cooke introduced Mr. H. C. Reriburn to deliver his paper he described him as "an outspoken .man". And the vice-chairman' of the Road Haulage Association' highways and vehicles committee, and director of the family haulage concern of L. T. Redburn Ltd., certainly spoke without fear or favour on what Mr. Gresham Cooke described as "the rather touchy points between manufacturer and operator ".

The fact that Mr. Redburn's address lasted but seven minutes and the questions another 55 before the chairman brought question time to a close, with only half those who had asked to speak being heard, illustrated the interest delegates felt in the subject. Certainly the frank opinions expressed by Mr. Redburn met with considerable support.

Explaining that he was speaking from the practical experience he had in operating "relatively few vehicles and types", from the confirmation of other hauliers' problems he had gathered as a member Of the R.H.A. H. and V. committee, and from the insight he had gained into the requirements of the Ministry of Transport, Mr. Redburn nevertheless stressed: " I am very conscious that I cannot have covered all the deficiences in all vehicles that need improving."

Emphasizing the points in his paper regarding brakes, Mr. Redburn added: " It is now manifest that ,considerable improvement must be made on many vehicles, and in the ease of the secondary means of stopping, practically all vehicles need improvement.

"One of the constant causes of trouble is the ingress of water and mud into braking systems using expander units, which results in seizure of these Units. This trouble does not occur with S cams and I feel that this tatter system is much to be preferred where practicable."

Critical of electric equipment in his printed paper, Mr. Redburn addressed this plea to the Conference: " I do sincerely hope that the manufacturers are at this moment producing equipment which will prove satisfactory in the new vehicles, particularly with starters that will be required. to start larger engines, and dynamos which will be carrying heavier loadings under the new lighting regulations ".

Although Mr. Redburn welcomed the use of tilt-forward cabs in permitting ease of maintenance, he returned to the problem of accessibility by saying: "I would ask manufacturers to place the easy-start button in such a position that it is not necessary to put overalls on to reach it if you do not want to. be covered in grease, and also make it unnecessary to be an acrobat with long arms. Without this accessibility, drivers will abuse the starter and battery. . . ."

He went on: "1 would like to stress my. observations on standardization of threads and component parts. -.This will again facilitate maintenance and allow a smaller stock of spare parts to be carried.

" On the question of vehicle security, greater attention to this should be paid by manufacturers and some form of device fitted as standard equipment."

Finally, Mr. Redburn criticized equipment provided for use when a vehicle was out on the road. "Will manufacturers please ensure that it is capable of being used?" he pleaded. "Only last week I received a complaint that a fairly new vehicle had a jack supplied which, when a front tyre was deflated because of a puncture, was found to be too tall to be placed under the axle ".

Perhaps this, and other faults, would not occur, concluded Mr. Redburn, "if the designer had to operate—as a driver and fitter—one of his own vehicles over a period of time".

With more than 20 delegates anxious to raise points in the discussion that followed, Mr. Gresham Cooke had to limit speakers to three minutes.

Mr. II. B. Phillips, group road transport manager of the George Cohen 600 Group Ltd., thanked Mr. Redburn for his "honest and down-to-earth paper ". He felt the problem of the elimination of smoke—a subject he described as being "very dear to my heart "—should be no more prevalent than that of oil reaching the combustion chamber, and it should be tackled in the same basic way. Making a Strong plea to manufacturers for adequate, foolproof proving of newly introduced vehicles "so that when we get a new vehicle the three-year period mentioned this morning is non-existent ", Mr. Phillips asked what would Mr. Redburn concentrate Qn if he were a manufacturer, given that length of time?

Brakes, replied Mr. Redburn and, in particular, brake fade. He agreed with the comment on smoke, adding: "Engines we have at the moment will have to be downrated to some extent to ensure that as wear occurs during operation they do not come within the limits of making smoke ".

Mr. S. Mansfield, director, John Harris (Cartage) Ltd., referring in particular to the four-wheeler, complained of the little things which kept going wrong. It did not really matter what they were, he said; the point he was making was that while a vehicle was off the road it was not earning. He gave an example of a break

in the feed pipe to the oil-pressure gauge. It probably cost only lls. to replace, provided one could find an agent quickly who had one in stock, but the oil spilt from the broken feed could mean that a £30 tyre had to be written off. Mr. Mansfield, complained of sales and advertising Methods used to sell a vehicle. Hie was assured by a salesman that one particular vehicle would run 150,000 to 200,000 miles without a top overhaul, although the salesman would not put the statement in writing. " So," said Mr. Mansfield, "1 challenged him to let me have the vehicle for that period and if it reached that mileage without overhaul then 1 offered to pay for the vehicle, plus 10 or 20 per cent or so. But it wasn't on!" he said.

Coming to his question, he asked whether it was better. in Mr. Redburn's opinion, to spend £2,000 to £2,500 on a chassis which by the time it was on the road with a platform or drop-side body will cost nearly £3.000. and run it for seven to 10 years: or whether he would spend £l.25041,300 on a chassis-cab, put .a body on it and run it for just three to four years.

Mr. Redburn had no doubt in deciding it paid to buy the quality vehicle—minor troubles arose on some low-priced vehicles after a month or two which, although they might take only an hour or so to fix. "often meant the vehicle would be out of service far longer.

Speaking as the chairman of the R.H.A. H. and V. committee. Mr. C. W. Oliver endorsed the points made by Mr. Redborn in the paper, and then added some observations of his own.

• "The recent increase in spot checks carried out on behalf of the Ministry of Transport", he said, have revealed that a large percentage of prohibitions have been because of defects in steering .

would ask, manufacturers to note this point and endeavour to ensure that the steering box is secured, to the chassis in such a way, that it Will not become loose. Trackrod ends are also a source ot

trouble . . it would be helpful if ball joints could be coated in nylon or some similar substance which would obviate the necessity for greasing and result in a longer life.

He went on This leads logically to the question of maintenance generally. and as there seems to be a considerable decrease in the number of fitters available in the industry. I would wholeheartedly echo the plea for the fitting of automatic lubrication by the manufacturer. I would also suggest that efforts should be made to introduce a system of nylon coated bushes. and so on. which would reduce the arrtiount of maintenance required."

On the subject of brakes, Mr. 01:ver said " I would like to add one point which has been raised by a number of people. and that is that the manufacturers should introduce some audible warning device in the cab which would enable the driver to know the moment there is a loss of air pressure or leakage oe fluid on vehicles fitted with air or hydraulic brakes. .

"'Finally' said Mr. Oliver, I would say that, generally speaking, manufacturers are beginning to realize that customers should have some say in vehicle specification . . . but there ought to he some system of liaison between members of the industry. R.H.A.. T.R.T.A. and P.V.O.A. they should have periodic Meetings with the S.M.M.T. . . . to sort out the problems of the industry on a national footing."

Mr. Rcdburn agreed that an audible warning device -showing loss of braking power was commendable and that nothing hut good could come of closer co-operation between operators and

manufacturers. •

With so much criticism of manufacturers-, and delegates 'own. expressed disappointment that more were not present to hear the points raised, the chairman called on a manufacturer, Mr. R, Watson Lee. managing director of Commer Cars Ltd.. to reply.

Impressed by what he described as the " first-class; distinguished gathering ", Mr. Watson Lee said the fact that so many leaders of industry were present illustrated the need for closer collaboration

within this important industry. " My chief engineer and I are itching to get down to details and talk ", he said. " must assure vou that as manufacturers we do take this question of qualitY and reliabilityintensely seriously. We realize we are not . good. enough -yet, quite

obviously, any of us he said. " We have got to improve. It has become a matter not only of business interest to you gentlemen in your' industry, but it is in the public interest that commercial vehicles should be more reliable ". he admitted.

Mr. Watson Lee appreciated that there were times when particular spares were unobtainable, hut maintained that big strides had been made in the provision of soares and service. Co-operation over design was going on at present with fleet operators running vehicles on test -for us, he added. And he gave an invitation for Operators to visit the Commer factory to discuss their vehicle problems.

British Railways' road services officer Mr. G. White asked why Mr. Redburn had not mentioned vehicles in connection with the forthcoming liner trains. He suggested liner trains could create a call for a new type of vehicle, not capable of 250.000 miles but with a life-of 100,000 miles on collection and delivery duties at rail termini. before being replaced. " Is there a case for such . a vehicle?", he Mr. Redburn felt there might be. up to a point, hut confessed the reason he had not commented on vehicles to be used in connection with liner trains was because 1-1.2. had enough trouble running his own vehicles without worrying about trains!

When _the chairman steered the discussion to heavy vehicles, such as eightwheelers and big a qics, Mr. P. G. .1e1TeOck, general manager of aonofreight

Transport Ltd., called for views on servicing facilities for heavy vehicles when 250 Miles or more away from base. At least one firm in this country, replied Mr. Redburn, provided very excellent service by depots throughout the country and, therefore, the heavy vehiele operator did get better service, he felt. He wished that more popular, but smaller types of vehicle, could also get 24-hour service.

It was then that Mr. J. A. H. Kevan, operations officer of British Road Services (Parcels) Ltd., rose to set himself up as a defender of what he described as "the absent tycoons ", although he agreed with the ideas in the paper. He said he was concerned with the carriage of 2 m. parcels per week, carried by 600 night trunk vehicles and • 3,000 smaller local delivery vehicles. If he received 100 complaints of delay it was fair to say that only one, if that, was because of vehicle delay. "We have got to get things in proportion -•he emphasized.

Mr. Redburn agreed that we would all be very foolish if we did not admit there had been an improvement in vehicles, and, in particular, there had been a great improvement in tyres. But there was still room for improvement.

Mr. J. R. Burrill, Manager of the motor engineers dept., J. Sainsbury Ltd., • criticized Mr. Redburn's support for automatic chassis lubrication. Everyone, he felt, had gone "dewy-eyed" over ac]. He criticized the amount of oil deposited on the roads by such systems and suggested that a sensible man greasing underneath a vehicle could note defects before they became serious. Mr. Redburn, however, reaffirmed his support for a.e.l. on irregular • operations, although he did hope that the need for lubrication itself would decrease.

It .was when Mr. Redburn mentioned that, in his opinion, a vehicle had never been really tested until it had been to South Wales two or three times, that Mr. G. Price, transport manager,' Imperial Aluminium Co. Ltd., rose to complain of the "very serious matter" of manufacturers not giving sufficient attention to braking and pre-delivery testing. He told of the high rate of accidents in his area because of .brake failure. Speaking of his concern where new vehicles were sent out without suffi

cient testing. he told how within 24 or 48 hours of a new vehicle being delivered, it had been loaded and sent out on a job, only to have the driver phone to say the handbrake would not hold the vehicle and its load on a hill. "1 assure you this has happened to us not just once but two or three times", he said. Emphasizing that his company paid particular attention to maintenance, he said they had found the steel on some brake rims broke up after -a comparatively short time because of overheating. "It leads us to believe that somewhere along the line the wrong specification of steel is being used ", he concluded.

Mr. T. J. E. Price, managing director, T. J. E. Price (Cardiff) Ltd., joined the discussion. He, too, stressed that braking should be improved and said that delegates should go away ashamed because improvements had not been made earlier.

One manufacturer's answer to a complaint of the breaking up of brake drums was given by Mr. Redburn. When he had complained in the past he eventually received the reply that the break-up had been caused by the vehicle being run through puddles. " Really!". said Mr. Redburn, "I told him we also drive our vehicles in the rain." A real step forward, he felt, were the new braking efficiency regulations for heavy vehicles. He felt that ultimately all vehicles would have to comply with the specification.

Then the representative of a manufacturer, Mr. P. 0, Ives, manager of the marketing plans dept., Ford Motor Company, described the positive steps his company was taking to improve its 24hour service facilities through agents throughout the country. He emphasized that manufacturers had learned their lesson on proving vehicles and were all now leaning more on operators' experiences with vehicles, and asked operators to bear with them. "We recognize, I think, that in the past we have been deficient in this respect and we are trying to do better in the future.

"1 have heard a hell of a lot today that has shaken me and my colleagues", he added.

A final question, read by the chairman, came from Mr. F. M. Fieldhouse, group traffic manager, British Ropes, and concerned lighting.Why not flashers on

three points each side of a vehicle? Why not interchangeable 12and 24-volt electrics on artics? And why not front and rear lamps larger than the minimum laid down?

Mr. Redburn felt that fleet operators should standardize the voltage on their own trailers to avoid complicated electries. His final sally: "Bertram Mills would think we were coming along with a circus vehicle if we had any more lights!"

Introducing the last paper, Mr. Hubert Perring (chief mechanical engineer, Ministry of Transport) said that before a brake could be applied successfully, the wheel must be in contact with the road. He therefore regarded the springing of a vehicle as being a very relevant feature to the efficiency of the brakes.

Mr. Redburn had already raised the question of the security of the load. It was not enough merely to stop a vehicle. The load had to be stopped also, and it was quite clear from the vehicles that were to be seen on the road that neither the people who made the body or attached the chassis, nor the people who put the toad on that body, had any real appreciation of the forces that could be brought into play. This was a feature—the education of designers and operating staff —which had to be considered in the future.

On the topic of locked wheels, Mr. Perring said that one of the most dramatic things that had been announced and demonstrated in recent years were antilocking systems which measured whether the wheel was being braked too hard and therefore decelerated too quickly. Where this occurred the brake could be released, the locked wheel ceased sliding on the road and rolling friction was restored between the tyre and the road. Control of the vehicle and reduction in stopping distances with such systems could be very large indeed.

After briefly mentioning deceleration standards, fading, and so on, Mr. Perring indicated that there was some difference of opinion, internationally, in emergency braking. This the Ministry was trying to resolve.

Mr. W. L. Morgan. (chief engineer, B.R.S. Federation Ltd.) said that one point not mentioned by Mr. Perring was the importance now being placed in obtaining more braking from the front axle. He asked Mr. Perring whether he felt that in the forseeable future it would be necessary to place the kingpin two feet in front of the rear axle, instead of the usual six to nine inches which was used today. There would be great reluctance on the part of operators to do this because of the loss of interchangeability. "Would this he regarded as a safety requirement from the stability and braking angle?", he asked. He felt that some authoritative body ought to lay down a standard rather than leave it to operators or manufacturers.

Replying, Mr. Perring said that the question of braking on the front tractor axle was a matter which had come very much to notice of late. There were two ways of dealing with this problem, both of which had advantages and disadvantages. Answering Mr. Morgan's second question, Mr. Perring said that he understood that the industry was looking seriously into this and it was rutnoured that they were willing to come forward with suggestions "fairly soon ".

Mr. D. H. Ballard, technical director, Clayton Dewandre Co. Ltd., Said there was a definite need for safety of commercial vehicle brakes. This could, perhaps, best be achieved first by fitting the best possible brakes and brake systems to vehicles at the design stage, and secondly by very much greater attention to servicing on adjustment of brakes and brake mechanisms during the vehicle's life. Anti-locking system, systems where braking could be adjusted according to loads, and emergency brakes would shortly be available to the industry on a production basis, he added.

Mr. A. H. Carter .(Carter Engineering Co. (Tamworth) Ltd.) pointed out that Great Britain was possibly. the only ...ountry in Europe which insisted on mechanical linkage between towing vehicles and independent trailers, and that it was not possible to adhere to the 25 per cent efficiency laid down for the alternative system. Mr. Perrin said that

this was a pertinent point which was appreciated at the Ministry. However, they had expressed to the •-industry, via the S.M.M.T., a willingness to look upon brakes in the three-system E.E.C. method and give dispensations from the Regulations as they stood, until they could be amended. '' Briefly ", Mr. Perring said. " the 25 per cent need not be achieved entirely by a mechanical system provided that it is independent of the service brakes, but that a lesser performance from a parking brake must be achieved entirely mechanically".

Mr. Perring said that the point had been taken up and there was a provision that had been notified to the manufacturers by the S.M.M.T. that there was "a way round this " until the Regulations were amended in line with E.E.C. thinking on the subject, Summing Up Summing up the conference, Mr. K. C. Turner (president, Traders Road Transport Association) said that a most important point of the proceedings was that both operators and manufacturers were concerned with road safety. There were now 1-trrn, commercial vehicles on

the road and vehicle design was of tremendous importance • to the whole country.

Mr. Dawson's paper and several speakers had drawn. attention to engine smoke. The new Regulations, affecting the design of both vehicles and engines were urgently awaited.

Mr. Vince had quite rightly focused attention on ventilation in p.s.v. Mr. Turner hoped that the electric vehicles envisaged would be sufficiently fast for urban use. He felt that the p.s.v, operators should •use off-the-peg vehicles whenever possible.

Mr. Redburn's paper had referred to the standardization of vehicle frames; Mr. Turner thought that operators should also ask for larger fuel tanks.

He agreed with Mr. Perring that brakes were overdue for development, but commented that we were requiring more speed from our vehicles and that brakes today were better than ever before. British vehicles were in use throughout the world; operators expected 100,000 miles and that was no mean achievement. Mr. Turner made one final point. "There ought to he some machinery for manufacturers and operators to get together and thrash out their joint problems", he said.